Overview

In this episode of the JRE MMA Show, Joe Rogan sits down with four-time world champion and Olympic medalist Shakur Stevenson in the wake of his career-defining victory over Teofimo Lopez. The conversation centers on Stevenson's tactical mastery, his philosophy of avoiding damage to preserve long-term brain health, and the disciplined mindset that separates elite fighters from the rest. The tone is admiring and analytical, with Rogan treating Stevenson's performance as a masterclass in boxing intelligence while Stevenson reveals the obsessive study habits, self-analysis, and mentorship from Terence Crawford that underpin his rise.

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0:18The Teofimo Lopez Victory and Levels in Boxing

Rogan opens by calling Stevenson's performance against Teofimo Lopez "a giant wake-up call for the entirety of boxing." Lopez had beaten legitimate world-class fighters, including Vasiliy Lomachenko, yet Stevenson made him "look like he had no business in there." Stevenson attributes the result to hard work, dedication, God-given ability, and instincts that "just knew how to win." He describes the fight as feeling like "an out of body experience" where his brain took over.

Rogan emphasizes that Stevenson is "one of the absolute, very best ever at setting traps and avoiding damage," taking remarkably few punches in his fights. Stevenson explains that his defensive intelligence is deliberate: he watches older fighters who took heavy punishment and now struggle to speak clearly, and he wants to be able to "speak well to my kids and my grandkids." He contrasts himself with fighters who "stand there like punching bags" and warns that in a few years, they won't be able to speak as well as someone like him.

The discussion reveals a key insight about boxing judging: Stevenson notes that judges tend to favor the fighter coming forward, which forced him to adjust his style against William Zepeda. Rather than outboxing and moving, he stood and traded early to "get his respect" and make sure the judges knew who was winning. That fight was "very unusual" for him, and he vowed afterward, "I'm not fighting like that again."

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5:22Self-Belief, Discipline, and the Crawford Influence

Stevenson declares himself "the best fighter in boxing," not disrespectfully but as a statement of fact. He believes he can "do it all"—outbox opponents one night, beat them at their own game the next. Rogan notes that this mindset is essential because after dominating divisions and dismantling Lopez, "nobody wants to look stupid" fighting him.

The most important factor Stevenson says he doesn't get credit for is his discipline: "making the sacrifices and the life changes that I need to make in order to be 100% on fight night." He reveals that his performance against Lopez was only "like an okay day in the gym," estimating he's shown the world only about 70% of what he can do. Rogan calls this the difference between a very good fighter and an all-time great.

Stevenson credits Terence Crawford as the single biggest influence on his game. He has trained alongside Crawford for years, watching everything—his bad days, his good days, how he prepares, how he adjusts. "That dude kind of put me into a whole different world," Stevenson says. "If I could spar with him, how you gonna hurt me?" Rogan agrees that having an all-time great like Crawford in the gym is "better than any coach in the world." Stevenson adds that Crawford is "one of the most competitive persons I ever met," and that watching him study sparring footage and make adjustments the next day taught Stevenson to do the same.

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13:37Andre Ward, Lomachenko Sparring, and Learning from Everyone

Stevenson also credits Andre Ward as a mentor, calling him "somebody who I looked up to since a kid." Ward, he says, explains things in detail and helps him understand situations with weight or strategy better than anyone. Rogan notes that Ward fought most of his career with one good arm—his left—after shoulder problems, and still beat elite fighters like Sergey Kovalev. Stevenson respects that Kovalev in his prime was "a killer" with a "scary right hand," and that Ward's victory over him was a career-defining moment.

A revealing anecdote concerns Stevenson's sparring sessions with Vasiliy Lomachenko years ago. Stevenson admits he "messed myself up" by sparring Lomachenko when he was younger, because now no one at 135 wants to fight him after seeing how good he looked. The first sparring session, six rounds, Stevenson felt he could outbox Lomachenko. The second time, Lomachenko made him do 12 straight rounds. "For the first eight, I'm good," Stevenson says, "but the last four rounds, he started picking up the pace." Stevenson attributes the shift to fatigue, not skill—"skillfully, I felt like I was the better fighter"—but the experience taught him the importance of conditioning. He believes those sparring sessions are why a fight with Lomachenko never materialized.

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19:13The Goal of Leaving Boxing Healthy and Wealthy

Stevenson's biggest goal is to leave boxing financially secure enough that he never has to fight again. "I don't want to be one of them fighters that's like, need boxing," he says. "As long as I'm having fun with boxing, I want to be doing it. But once it's not fun no more... I don't want to have to feel that way." He points to Floyd Mayweather as a cautionary example, noting that despite making more money than anyone, Mayweather keeps fighting exhibitions, and Rogan adds that Mayweather has "a bunch of lawsuits where he owes money."

Stevenson instead admires Andre Ward, who retired undefeated as a two-division world champion and Olympic gold medalist, turned down a massive offer to fight Canelo, and now works as a commentator. "All faculties intact. No worries about his brain health," Rogan says. "That's the way to go out." Stevenson agrees: "That's my biggest goal."

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24:52The Champion's Mindset: Fear, Family, and Father-Coaches

Rogan asks what separates fighters who perform at 100% under the lights from those who get "dwarfed by the moment." Stevenson says it's "all mental." He tells himself, "It's either me or him. My life or your life. And one of us got to go." He traces this mindset back to his younger brothers, who would taunt him after amateur losses by bringing up the opponent's name. "I used to have to hear that in the house," he says. "Now if I beat everybody, they can't say it no more."

Stevenson also credits his grandfather, who is his coach. The energy his grandfather brings during fight week gets him amped up: "I gotta stand on business for my grandfather." He contrasts this with father-son coaching relationships that often go wrong. "Coaches should listen to what I'm about to say," Stevenson says. "There has to be a difference between a father and a coach. When you're coaching your son, you have to be a coach in the boxing ring instead of the father." He believes his grandfather succeeded because he let Stevenson choose boxing for himself, supporting him in football and other sports first. "He allowed me to love the sport of boxing myself."

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42:38PEDs, Weight Classes, and the Business of Boxing

The conversation turns to performance-enhancing drugs, sparked by discussion of Ryan Garcia's positive test for ostarine after his win over Devin Haney. Stevenson says he can't give Garcia credit for that victory: "If you got caught, I can't give you the credit." Rogan argues that steroids don't help you land punches but help with recovery and training harder, and that Garcia's left hook was "on point" regardless. Stevenson counters that the extra power might have been enough to hurt Haney, noting that Haney was winning the quiet moments of the fight until he got dropped.

Stevenson insists on VADA testing for all his fights. "I do not play that," he says. He finds cheating particularly dangerous in boxing because "it's life or death." He brings up the case of Subriel Matias, who killed an opponent in the ring and later tested positive for a banned substance. "You could cheat and hit somebody with the wrong shot and then they dead," Stevenson says. "I don't know how I would react" to losing to a cheater.

Rogan explains the history of doping in MMA, including the Pride organization in Japan where contracts explicitly stated they did not test for steroids. He shows Stevenson a photo of Alistair Overeem—"Ubereem"—juiced to the point of looking like a comic book superhero, versus his post-USADA physique. "When he was on the juice, he was unstoppable," Rogan says. "When they started doing USADA testing, he looked completely different." Stevenson is visibly disturbed by the implications, especially for fighters from earlier eras like Roy Jones Jr., who moved up from middleweight to win a heavyweight title. Rogan notes that putting on that much lean muscle in one's 30s "generally you have some help."

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1:00:26Amateur Career, Studying Footage, and the Difference Between Fighting and Boxing

Stevenson believes the amateur career is important for experience, but that developing in the gym—who you spar, who you train with—matters most. He notes that Lomachenko, despite his legendary amateur record, fought at weight classes he was too small for, which "tarnished his career in a way" because people don't appreciate how good he really was.

A striking insight comes when Stevenson explains the difference between "fighting" and "boxing." When he's fighting, he's emotional, trying to beat someone up in a contest of who's bigger and stronger. When he's boxing, he's "on top of my game," able to hit without being hit. He tries to stick with boxing and only fight when necessary. He studies himself on video, a habit he learned from Crawford: "I gotta check in with myself and see what am I doing wrong and what am I doing right." He believes this self-analysis is rare among fighters, who typically depend entirely on their coaches.

Stevenson reveals that before the Lopez fight, he watched an eight-year-old kid named Tremaine Williams fight, studying how the shorter fighter used his jab to keep range and distance. "I was literally watching an 8-year-old kid fight right before the biggest fight of my life," he says. "You can learn from anywhere."

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1:42:39Future Fights: Tank, the Ring Belt, and Moving Up

When asked about future opponents, Stevenson says he might go back to 135 pounds to win the Ring Magazine belt, which he never held at that weight. "It's not even the opponent," he says. "It's more so just to have the ring belt." The opponent for that belt would likely be Raymond Muratalla, who just beat Andy Cruz.

The biggest name at 135 is Gervonta "Tank" Davis, but Stevenson feels disrespected by Davis's public comments suggesting Stevenson needs him. "I'm a grown man, I make my own money. I'm living a spectacular life. I don't need nobody." Rogan agrees that after the Lopez performance, Stevenson has his breakout win and doesn't need to chase anyone.

Stevenson says he plans to eventually move up to 147 pounds, but slowly, putting on mass deliberately. He walks around in his 40s and doesn't want to jump into a weight class where opponents like Ryan Garcia rehydrate to 170 pounds. He notes that Garcia said he could make 140, and if so, "let's do it." But Stevenson is in no rush: "I'm 28 right now. I got a long way to go."

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1:55:53The Wilder Question, Betterbiev, and Boxing's Best Matchups

Rogan calls Deontay Wilder "the greatest one-punch knockout artist in the history of the heavyweight division," noting that he weighed only 209 pounds when he fought Tyson Fury the first time yet possessed devastating power. Stevenson agrees: "I don't think nobody could take it." But he wishes Wilder had retired: "What else is there to do? You done did a lot in the sport."

The conversation turns to the light heavyweight division, where Stevenson is eager to see Artur Beterbiev fight Dmitry Bivol. "That's the best versus the best," he says. "I think that's one of the best fights to make in the sport of boxing." Rogan notes that Beterbiev was 39 when he fought Bivol and still punching through gloves with frightening power. Stevenson saw it from the front row: "I could see how hard he was punching his glove. I don't know how Bivol is taking that."

They also discuss David Benavidez versus Canelo, a fight that never got made. Stevenson sees both sides: Benavidez is the mandatory challenger, but Canelo is fighting guys who are "200 pounds on the regular" while he's nowhere near that weight. "Why would I fight this guy? I don't think it's fair," Stevenson says, understanding Canelo's position. He adds that Canelo's loss to Bivol likely killed any chance of him fighting Benavidez.

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Conclusion

This episode matters because it captures a fighter at the peak of his powers who thinks about boxing differently than most. Shakur Stevenson is not just a tactical genius in the ring; he is a student of the sport who studies eight-year-olds, watches his own sparring footage, and credits his growth to training alongside an all-time great. His commitment to avoiding damage, preserving his health, and leaving the sport on his own terms sets an example for a new generation. The conversation reveals the depth of his self-awareness—the difference between fighting and boxing, the importance of discipline over motivation, and the rare ability to learn from everyone around him. For anyone who wants to understand what separates elite fighters from the rest, this episode is a masterclass.

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Key takeaways

• Shakur Stevenson's victory over Teofimo Lopez was a career-defining performance that demonstrated his elite defensive skills, ring IQ, and ability to make a world champion look out of his depth.
• Stevenson prioritizes avoiding damage above all else, citing the long-term cognitive health of older fighters as a cautionary example, and he believes his discipline is the most underrated aspect of his game.
• Training alongside Terence Crawford for years has been transformative; Stevenson learned to study his own sparring footage, make adjustments, and adopt a champion's mindset from watching Crawford's preparation and competitiveness.
• Stevenson insists on VADA testing for all his fights and is disturbed by the prevalence of performance-enhancing drugs in boxing, especially given the life-or-death stakes of the sport.
• He distinguishes between "fighting" (emotional, brawling) and "boxing" (tactical, defensive), and tries to stay in the latter mode unless circumstances force him to brawl.
• His grandfather, who coaches him, succeeded by letting Stevenson choose boxing for himself, unlike many father-coaches who become overbearing and confuse their roles.
• Stevenson's goal is to retire healthy and wealthy, like Andre Ward, rather than continue fighting past his prime out of financial necessity like Floyd Mayweather appears to have done.
• Future fights he finds compelling include Gervonta Davis at 135, though he feels disrespected by Davis's comments, and he may move up to 147 pounds slowly, adding mass deliberately rather than jumping weight classes.